<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Addiction and Romans 6</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lionelwindsor.net/2008/02/11/addiction-and-romans-6/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lionelwindsor.net/2008/02/11/addiction-and-romans-6/</link>
	<description>lionelwindsor.net</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:54:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lionel</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwindsor.net/2008/02/11/addiction-and-romans-6/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwindsor.net/biblog/?p=11#comment-123</guid>
		<description>The person who made the original comment after my sermon adds:
------

To find out more about twelve-step programs, I recommend reading the AA Big Book. This is the basic text of all 12-step programs, with only the substance-related details changed. The current edition can be found at

http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline

I also found this site, which addresses some of the issues related to Christianity, addiction and twelve-step programs
 http://www.alcoholicsvictorious.org/. In particular, their FAQ section discusses the implications of the &quot;Disease&quot; model.

About the twelve steps and the Bible they say:

&quot;If we approach them with the premise that our God is He who has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, there is nothing in the 12 Steps that directly contradicts the Scriptures. They consist of the following; admission of personal defeat, brokenness, turning one&#039;s life and will over to the care of God, confession, restitution, acquiring the spiritual disciplines of prayer and personal devotions, and a desire to reach out to others. If every Christian practiced these things on a consistent basis, they would grow tremendously! The 12 Steps are simply an orderly way to apply the scriptural principles they espouse. They have a natural progression in them that can serve as an outline of discipleship that fits the unique needs of the addict.&quot;

I agree with this statement. This is my opinion: We are all slaves to sin, and cannot by ourselves be freed from its power. The Bible is quite clear on that. Sin will often have physical consequences in the form of disease. Homosexual activity, for example, shortens a person&#039;s life expectancy considerably. In the case of the addict, physical nad emotional dependency do become diseases. While most sinners have the ability to choose how they show their rebellion against God, and to act in their own perceived best interests, the disease of addiction robs the addict of this power. Sin has them on a far shorter leash than the non-addict can imagine. In his mercy, God has provided us with 12-step programs. Like other advances in human thought, God uses them for his purposes to further his kingdom. As with other diseases, he is often more likely to act through such seemingly &quot;human&quot; channels than through the more obviously supernatural ones.

I might also note that , for many addicts, their guilt is like the Slough of Despond in the Pilgrim&#039;s Progress. Many addicts are overwhelmed by a sense of shame and guilt, both true and imagined. They may be painfully aware of their guilt before God. But few addicts can see a way around the quagmire of guilt. They usually avoid it like the plague, constantly justifying and rationalising their behaviour, denying its abnormality. Or else, they try to get out of the addiction, get stuck in their guilt, and turn to the only way out that seems available- more indulgence in addictive behaviour to numb their feelings. I think this is why diminished responsiblity is emphasized in the early stages of recovery from addiction. As Christians we don&#039;t need the concept of a &quot;disease&quot; to free us from our guilt. We can overcome guilt in the knowledge that 1. All humans are sinful. No one person is better than another. Our slavery is just more obviosu. 2. Jesus sets us free from all guilt.

Of course all this is just my own thoughts, and I can&#039;t claim to speak for other addicts or for twelve-step programs. But Thanks once again for the opportunity to serve by sharing my thoughts with you.

For more info

http://www.12step.org/The-12-Steps.html

The Christian OA group can be found at:
http://www.therecoverygroup.org/odat/christian/index.html

Narcotics Anonymous
Website: www.naoz.org.au
Phone: 02 9565 1453

Gamblers Anonymous
Website: www.gamblersanonymous.org.au
Phone: 9564 1574

Sex Addicts Anonymous:
Website http://saa-recovery.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The person who made the original comment after my sermon adds:<br />
&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>To find out more about twelve-step programs, I recommend reading the AA Big Book. This is the basic text of all 12-step programs, with only the substance-related details changed. The current edition can be found at</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline" rel="nofollow">http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline</a></p>
<p>I also found this site, which addresses some of the issues related to Christianity, addiction and twelve-step programs<br />
 <a href="http://www.alcoholicsvictorious.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.alcoholicsvictorious.org/</a>. In particular, their FAQ section discusses the implications of the &#8220;Disease&#8221; model.</p>
<p>About the twelve steps and the Bible they say:</p>
<p>&#8220;If we approach them with the premise that our God is He who has revealed Himself in Jesus Christ, there is nothing in the 12 Steps that directly contradicts the Scriptures. They consist of the following; admission of personal defeat, brokenness, turning one&#8217;s life and will over to the care of God, confession, restitution, acquiring the spiritual disciplines of prayer and personal devotions, and a desire to reach out to others. If every Christian practiced these things on a consistent basis, they would grow tremendously! The 12 Steps are simply an orderly way to apply the scriptural principles they espouse. They have a natural progression in them that can serve as an outline of discipleship that fits the unique needs of the addict.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with this statement. This is my opinion: We are all slaves to sin, and cannot by ourselves be freed from its power. The Bible is quite clear on that. Sin will often have physical consequences in the form of disease. Homosexual activity, for example, shortens a person&#8217;s life expectancy considerably. In the case of the addict, physical nad emotional dependency do become diseases. While most sinners have the ability to choose how they show their rebellion against God, and to act in their own perceived best interests, the disease of addiction robs the addict of this power. Sin has them on a far shorter leash than the non-addict can imagine. In his mercy, God has provided us with 12-step programs. Like other advances in human thought, God uses them for his purposes to further his kingdom. As with other diseases, he is often more likely to act through such seemingly &#8220;human&#8221; channels than through the more obviously supernatural ones.</p>
<p>I might also note that , for many addicts, their guilt is like the Slough of Despond in the Pilgrim&#8217;s Progress. Many addicts are overwhelmed by a sense of shame and guilt, both true and imagined. They may be painfully aware of their guilt before God. But few addicts can see a way around the quagmire of guilt. They usually avoid it like the plague, constantly justifying and rationalising their behaviour, denying its abnormality. Or else, they try to get out of the addiction, get stuck in their guilt, and turn to the only way out that seems available- more indulgence in addictive behaviour to numb their feelings. I think this is why diminished responsiblity is emphasized in the early stages of recovery from addiction. As Christians we don&#8217;t need the concept of a &#8220;disease&#8221; to free us from our guilt. We can overcome guilt in the knowledge that 1. All humans are sinful. No one person is better than another. Our slavery is just more obviosu. 2. Jesus sets us free from all guilt.</p>
<p>Of course all this is just my own thoughts, and I can&#8217;t claim to speak for other addicts or for twelve-step programs. But Thanks once again for the opportunity to serve by sharing my thoughts with you.</p>
<p>For more info</p>
<p><a href="http://www.12step.org/The-12-Steps.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.12step.org/The-12-Steps.html</a></p>
<p>The Christian OA group can be found at:<br />
<a href="http://www.therecoverygroup.org/odat/christian/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.therecoverygroup.org/odat/christian/index.html</a></p>
<p>Narcotics Anonymous<br />
Website: <a href="http://www.naoz.org.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.naoz.org.au</a><br />
Phone: 02 9565 1453</p>
<p>Gamblers Anonymous<br />
Website: <a href="http://www.gamblersanonymous.org.au" rel="nofollow">http://www.gamblersanonymous.org.au</a><br />
Phone: 9564 1574</p>
<p>Sex Addicts Anonymous:<br />
Website <a href="http://saa-recovery.org/" rel="nofollow">http://saa-recovery.org/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karen Halls</title>
		<link>http://www.lionelwindsor.net/2008/02/11/addiction-and-romans-6/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Halls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lionelwindsor.net/biblog/?p=11#comment-122</guid>
		<description>I found your site on google blog search and read a few of your other posts.  Keep up the good work.  Just added your RSS feed to my feed reader.  Look forward to reading more from you.

Karen Halls</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your site on google blog search and read a few of your other posts.  Keep up the good work.  Just added your RSS feed to my feed reader.  Look forward to reading more from you.</p>
<p>Karen Halls</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

